Youtube Interviews
In this episode of Roadmap to Heaven, host Adam Wright is joined by guest Matt Swaim and they discuss what to expect in the upcoming season of Lent. Matt Swaim is host of the Sunrise Morning Show and a member of the Coming Home Network.
During Lent, Matt highlights the importance of not overlooking events and activities connected to newcomers amidst the busy season. He mentions the scrutinies, liturgical practices where newcomers are questioned, and specific gospels are read, recounting stories of miracles that require scrutiny.
The rite of election is discussed as an initiation of the invitation for individuals to enter the church. Matt raises the question of the audience’s role in this process and emphasizes the importance of their involvement. He suggests inviting newcomers over for dinner, getting to know them, and asking how one can help them transition into the Catholic faith.
Matt emphasizes the importance of converts reckoning with their pasts and questioning their sincerity as they enter the church. He suggests incorporating the same level of enthusiasm and celebration seen at welcome-home parties into liturgical and prayerful gatherings to truly welcome and embrace new members.
Matt acknowledges that some converts come from churches where they were warmly welcomed, and the transition to a Catholic church may leave them feeling lost or unknown. He urges the Catholic community to make these individuals feel like part of a caring family that will support and nurture them.
Overall, this episode of Roadmap to Heaven provides a look into what happens in the Catholic church during the season of Lent. The conversation ends with a reminder to consider each person entering the church as a reflection of the community and to treat them as full members of the body of Christ.
Adam Wright:
You know the voice of our next guest because you hear him every day on the Sunrise Morning Show here on Covenant Network. We’re happy to be joined by Matt Swaim, cohost of Sunrise Morning Show, and doing some great work with the Coming Home Network. Matt, how are you today?
Matt Swaim:
Adam, it’s always great to serve as your warm up act on weekdays as you serve the the whole network there in the whole middle of the country. And even though you’re a cardinals fan, we’re reds fans, I always love talking to you.
Adam Wright:
And it’s an honor to bat cleanup for one of the best morning shows out there. So, you know, we’re like the 1, 2, punch here on Covenant Network just as – well, nowhere near how effective prayer and fasting are, but for a good start to the day, Sunrise Morning Show, Roadmap to Heaven. It can’t be beat. Now, Matt, we’re talking about Lent coming up, and I want to go back to my days working as a parish music director. There was always that time that the pastor would come up to me because inevitably, I would forget every Lent. He’s like, “Oh, by the way, we’ve got the scrutinies this Sunday” or “We’ve got the rite of election this Sunday” or “We’ve got this going on with RCIA this Sunday, so everything you planned, you have to change it to fit this.” And I’d say, “Yeah, great. That’s wonderful, Father. We will make that happen.” And it’s no shock, it’s no surprise, even though I might have forgotten a couple of times through the years, but this is a very important thing in the life of the church. For a while, I thought RCIA maybe started in Lent, but really they’ve been meeting for a while now, all of the catechumens, coming into the church this coming Easter. But things are about to really step into gear with Lent. So can you give us an overview of what we’re going to be seeing in our parishes over the next few months?
Matt Swaim:
Yeah, you’re gonna be seeing a lot. During Lent, there’s just so much going on. And so it may be easy to miss some of the things that are connected directly to people who are coming into the church. Of course, at the Coming Home Network, that’s kind of our whole deal, is helping people who are coming into the church. A lot of people think it’s telling the stories of converts. That’s kind of like the last step of the process. And usually, they’re in the church for a few years before we even tell the story. Most of what we do is walk with people through this process of becoming Catholic and the most hardcore stuff happens from Ash Wednesday on. You’ve mentioned the scrutinies. This is a liturgical thing that is somewhat of an option at a lot of parishes, or it could be that if you go to a Mass at a parish where they’ve got multiple Masses, it only happens at one of the Masses. But during this time of year, all these people who are getting ready to come into the church kind of walk up to the front, and they call them scrutinies for a reason, right? The whole parish gets to kind of look at them and be like, “I don’t know. Are these people serious or not?” And the people get to walk up and think to themselves, “I don’t know. Am I serious or not?” Right? And the stories that are connected with the scrutiny, and the gospels that are read in those Masses are fascinating. The things like the man born blind and being healed, and everybody’s like, “Alright, man. So were you really blind to begin with? Are you faking this story for attention?” Or stories like Lazarus. Like, okay. Rose from the dead. What does that really mean? Stories that have to do with miracles that require scrutiny. The woman at the well, don’t tell me that lady wasn’t scrutinized by her neighborhood when she started to preach the gospel. So these are the kinds of things that these converts who have to sort of reckon with their pasts. This is what they’re dealing with as they’re coming into the church and saying, “Am I really changing? Am I really willing to let Christ do work in me?” I mean, there’s a lot going on, man.
Adam Wright:
Yeah. There really is. Now I’m going to expose my little liturgical nerdy-ness here for a moment. I was just speaking about this that when a bishop comes to a diocese to take possession of the diocese, one of the things that happens in the course of the many rituals is he’s outside the door of the cathedral, and he literally bangs on the door as if to say, “I’m your new bishop. Let me in.” And then the doors are opened to him. He comes in. He greets the clergy. Usually kisses the cross. That is not the case with our catechumens. It’s not like they’re going to come to the back door of church one Sunday. We’re going to be in Mass and just hear bang bang bang bang on the door, you know, “Let me in, let me in” and we say, “Oh, well maybe we should let these people in.” This is a calling. We talk about that rite of election where they go down, usually to the cathedral of a diocese, and that really initiates this whole process of the church is inviting you to come in. And as you said, we’re going to scrutinize you to make sure that you’re clear on why you’re coming, and we’re clear on why you’re coming. And it’s easy to think okay well, Adam, Matt, you just named the role for the bishop, you just named the role for the catechumens, you just named the role for the catechists. I’m just sitting in the pew, and I get a little bonus church today at Mass. What is my role in all of this?
Matt Swaim:
Yeah. So I’m so glad you asked that, because that all comes to a head at Easter. You know, it’s funny, because working with converts all day long, I hear all these Catholics who say this thing, which they mean well, but is not true, which is: “Oh, you converts are such better Catholics than those of us who are born in the church.” Well, first of all, these converts, they may have had to read more, but you Catholics, you’ve been faithful. Right? You’ve been going to Mass and whatever. But it all comes to a head when these people get baptized at the Easter vigil. Right? Because everybody sits outside and wants to say, “Oh, man, what a great story. That really inspired me to take my faith seriously.” But in the Easter vigil when these people do their baptismal promises, the church then turns it back on us and says, “How about you all? Do you reject Satan?”
Adam Wright:
Wait, when did this become about me here, Matt? What are you what are you talking about?
Matt Swaim:
Exactly. It’s like, “Oh, isn’t it great that these people have rejected Satan in all his pomp and circumstance?” And they believe in God, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And then the priest turns around and is like, “Hey, how about the rest of y’all? Is it still true for you all?” Every single person that comes into this church is a mirror back to all of us who are here. Like, what are we doing? And what have we done during Lent? So, yeah, I know there’s bigger parties and other liturgical seasons, but this is my favorite. Lent is my favorite.
Adam Wright:
Now, before when we’ve had you on, we’ve talked about this, and this is something really important I’d like to highlight, not just the importance of praying for the catechumens as they go through these liturgical rites and as they finish up their formation. But one of the aspects about this, we think of it. Okay, well, my family, I’m born and raised Catholic. Even my cousins, my distant cousins, we’re all one big, happy Catholic family. For a lot of our converts coming into the church, they might be leaving family behind. It might be them and their spouse and their children, and that’s it. Everyone else is looking at them: “What are you doing? Why are you joining that Catholic church? We need to talk.”
Matt Swaim:
Yeah. Well, look at the genealogy of Jesus. Right? Those most seemingly boring parts of the liturgy that we get certain parts of the year where we just get the who begets. So and so begat who and who begat who, who begat this person, and down the line. And that line, if you listen to the line of Jesus, you hear people like Ruth, a Moabite, not even like a Jew. Rahab, a harlot who let people into Jericho to let it be destroyed. The history of the people of God is all about people who came in and joined the family. You know? And often the family that they came from had no idea what they were doing, thought they were nuts, and maybe loved them anyway, but thought they were crazy. So I would just say, when these people come into your family, don’t just be like, “Oh, that’s interesting. I guess we got seven people this year. I guess we got 22 people this year.” Treat them like they just joined your family. Treat them like they just married your kid. Treat these people like they are now full complete members of the body of Christ because they are, right? They’re in full communion. That’s the theology of it. These people who have been somehow connected to Christ, somehow moved by the Holy Spirit before, are now in. Like in, in. So treat them like family, treat them like the family that that they now are. That’s my recommendation.
Adam Wright:
I love it. We think of the welcome home parties we throw when someone’s been away, maybe at college or they’ve had to travel, they’re in the military, whatever it may be, they come home. We have a big gathering. We have a big party. We bring out the good food. We bring out all the best. Liturgically and and prayerfully, let’s pray our hardest for our catechumens and let’s participate when we’re called to participate in these liturgical rites. But then after the Easter vigil, when everybody gathers in the the Church hall: “Let’s bring our best of the chocolate chip cookies and the cakes and the whatever it is, Father” and the RCIA team says, “Hey, can you bring this for the reception afterwards?” Bring our A games to that.
Matt Swaim:
Absolutely, man. Invite these people over for dinner. Ask about them. Ask where they’re from. Ask if there’s anything you could do for them. Let them know. I mean, some of these people come from churches where they were welcomed all day every day. And they come to the Catholic church and they’re like, “I have no idea what’s going on, and nobody knows me.” Let them know, man. They’re part of a family that’s ready to take care of them.
Adam Wright:
I mean, we’ve all seen and heard The Journey Home with Marcus Grodi, and it’s a fantastic show, so we know some of the questions to ask. How did your story begin? What led you to come into the Catholic faith? What do you love– You know the questions. You can do the interview yourself, right there in the vestibule of church one Sunday after Mass or out in the parking lot. And then follow that up with, “Hey, it’s great to meet you. It’s great to know you.” Speaking of great to meet, great to know, Matt. It’s always a joy to have you with us on Roadmap to Heaven. I’m looking forward, you know, pitchers and catchers have reported, soon the preseason games will begin, and then we will be into it. There’s a rumor they’re going to retool the league if they have an expansion team in baseball, but until then, your Reds and my Cardinals are still in the same division. We both wear red. And maybe next time they’re playing one another, we’ll have to get a little friendly morning show wager going here.
Matt Swaim:
Well, all I can say is that the communion that unites us is stronger than the division rivalry that might attempt to divide us. So I’m always glad to be connected with you through Catholic Radio even if we have to argue three games at a time a few times a year.
Adam Wright:
I love it. I love it. Matt Swaim, the host of the Sunrise Morning Show. You hear him every day on Covenant Network here at 6 AM. We’re going to take a break. Stay tuned for more.
Adam Wright:
You know the voice of our next guest because you hear him every day on the Sunrise Morning Show here on Covenant Network. We’re happy to be joined by Matt Swaim, cohost of Sunrise Morning Show, and doing some great work with the Coming Home Network. Matt, how are you today?
Matt Swaim:
Adam, it’s always great to serve as your warm up act on weekdays as you serve the the whole network there in the whole middle of the country. And even though you’re a cardinals fan, we’re reds fans, I always love talking to you.
Adam Wright:
And it’s an honor to bat cleanup for one of the best morning shows out there. So, you know, we’re like the 1, 2, punch here on Covenant Network just as – well, nowhere near how effective prayer and fasting are, but for a good start to the day, Sunrise Morning Show, Roadmap to Heaven. It can’t be beat. Now, Matt, we’re talking about Lent coming up, and I want to go back to my days working as a parish music director. There was always that time that the pastor would come up to me because inevitably, I would forget every Lent. He’s like, “Oh, by the way, we’ve got the scrutinies this Sunday” or “We’ve got the rite of election this Sunday” or “We’ve got this going on with RCIA this Sunday, so everything you planned, you have to change it to fit this.” And I’d say, “Yeah, great. That’s wonderful, Father. We will make that happen.” And it’s no shock, it’s no surprise, even though I might have forgotten a couple of times through the years, but this is a very important thing in the life of the church. For a while, I thought RCIA maybe started in Lent, but really they’ve been meeting for a while now, all of the catechumens, coming into the church this coming Easter. But things are about to really step into gear with Lent. So can you give us an overview of what we’re going to be seeing in our parishes over the next few months?
Matt Swaim:
Yeah, you’re gonna be seeing a lot. During Lent, there’s just so much going on. And so it may be easy to miss some of the things that are connected directly to people who are coming into the church. Of course, at the Coming Home Network, that’s kind of our whole deal, is helping people who are coming into the church. A lot of people think it’s telling the stories of converts. That’s kind of like the last step of the process. And usually, they’re in the church for a few years before we even tell the story. Most of what we do is walk with people through this process of becoming Catholic and the most hardcore stuff happens from Ash Wednesday on. You’ve mentioned the scrutinies. This is a liturgical thing that is somewhat of an option at a lot of parishes, or it could be that if you go to a Mass at a parish where they’ve got multiple Masses, it only happens at one of the Masses. But during this time of year, all these people who are getting ready to come into the church kind of walk up to the front, and they call them scrutinies for a reason, right? The whole parish gets to kind of look at them and be like, “I don’t know. Are these people serious or not?” And the people get to walk up and think to themselves, “I don’t know. Am I serious or not?” Right? And the stories that are connected with the scrutiny, and the gospels that are read in those Masses are fascinating. The things like the man born blind and being healed, and everybody’s like, “Alright, man. So were you really blind to begin with? Are you faking this story for attention?” Or stories like Lazarus. Like, okay. Rose from the dead. What does that really mean? Stories that have to do with miracles that require scrutiny. The woman at the well, don’t tell me that lady wasn’t scrutinized by her neighborhood when she started to preach the gospel. So these are the kinds of things that these converts who have to sort of reckon with their pasts. This is what they’re dealing with as they’re coming into the church and saying, “Am I really changing? Am I really willing to let Christ do work in me?” I mean, there’s a lot going on, man.
Adam Wright:
Yeah. There really is. Now I’m going to expose my little liturgical nerdy-ness here for a moment. I was just speaking about this that when a bishop comes to a diocese to take possession of the diocese, one of the things that happens in the course of the many rituals is he’s outside the door of the cathedral, and he literally bangs on the door as if to say, “I’m your new bishop. Let me in.” And then the doors are opened to him. He comes in. He greets the clergy. Usually kisses the cross. That is not the case with our catechumens. It’s not like they’re going to come to the back door of church one Sunday. We’re going to be in Mass and just hear bang bang bang bang on the door, you know, “Let me in, let me in” and we say, “Oh, well maybe we should let these people in.” This is a calling. We talk about that rite of election where they go down, usually to the cathedral of a diocese, and that really initiates this whole process of the church is inviting you to come in. And as you said, we’re going to scrutinize you to make sure that you’re clear on why you’re coming, and we’re clear on why you’re coming. And it’s easy to think okay well, Adam, Matt, you just named the role for the bishop, you just named the role for the catechumens, you just named the role for the catechists. I’m just sitting in the pew, and I get a little bonus church today at Mass. What is my role in all of this?
Matt Swaim:
Yeah. So I’m so glad you asked that, because that all comes to a head at Easter. You know, it’s funny, because working with converts all day long, I hear all these Catholics who say this thing, which they mean well, but is not true, which is: “Oh, you converts are such better Catholics than those of us who are born in the church.” Well, first of all, these converts, they may have had to read more, but you Catholics, you’ve been faithful. Right? You’ve been going to Mass and whatever. But it all comes to a head when these people get baptized at the Easter vigil. Right? Because everybody sits outside and wants to say, “Oh, man, what a great story. That really inspired me to take my faith seriously.” But in the Easter vigil when these people do their baptismal promises, the church then turns it back on us and says, “How about you all? Do you reject Satan?”
Adam Wright:
Wait, when did this become about me here, Matt? What are you what are you talking about?
Matt Swaim:
Exactly. It’s like, “Oh, isn’t it great that these people have rejected Satan in all his pomp and circumstance?” And they believe in God, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And then the priest turns around and is like, “Hey, how about the rest of y’all? Is it still true for you all?” Every single person that comes into this church is a mirror back to all of us who are here. Like, what are we doing? And what have we done during Lent? So, yeah, I know there’s bigger parties and other liturgical seasons, but this is my favorite. Lent is my favorite.
Adam Wright:
Now, before when we’ve had you on, we’ve talked about this, and this is something really important I’d like to highlight, not just the importance of praying for the catechumens as they go through these liturgical rites and as they finish up their formation. But one of the aspects about this, we think of it. Okay, well, my family, I’m born and raised Catholic. Even my cousins, my distant cousins, we’re all one big, happy Catholic family. For a lot of our converts coming into the church, they might be leaving family behind. It might be them and their spouse and their children, and that’s it. Everyone else is looking at them: “What are you doing? Why are you joining that Catholic church? We need to talk.”
Matt Swaim:
Yeah. Well, look at the genealogy of Jesus. Right? Those most seemingly boring parts of the liturgy that we get certain parts of the year where we just get the who begets. So and so begat who and who begat who, who begat this person, and down the line. And that line, if you listen to the line of Jesus, you hear people like Ruth, a Moabite, not even like a Jew. Rahab, a harlot who let people into Jericho to let it be destroyed. The history of the people of God is all about people who came in and joined the family. You know? And often the family that they came from had no idea what they were doing, thought they were nuts, and maybe loved them anyway, but thought they were crazy. So I would just say, when these people come into your family, don’t just be like, “Oh, that’s interesting. I guess we got seven people this year. I guess we got 22 people this year.” Treat them like they just joined your family. Treat them like they just married your kid. Treat these people like they are now full complete members of the body of Christ because they are, right? They’re in full communion. That’s the theology of it. These people who have been somehow connected to Christ, somehow moved by the Holy Spirit before, are now in. Like in, in. So treat them like family, treat them like the family that that they now are. That’s my recommendation.
Adam Wright:
I love it. We think of the welcome home parties we throw when someone’s been away, maybe at college or they’ve had to travel, they’re in the military, whatever it may be, they come home. We have a big gathering. We have a big party. We bring out the good food. We bring out all the best. Liturgically and and prayerfully, let’s pray our hardest for our catechumens and let’s participate when we’re called to participate in these liturgical rites. But then after the Easter vigil, when everybody gathers in the the Church hall: “Let’s bring our best of the chocolate chip cookies and the cakes and the whatever it is, Father” and the RCIA team says, “Hey, can you bring this for the reception afterwards?” Bring our A games to that.
Matt Swaim:
Absolutely, man. Invite these people over for dinner. Ask about them. Ask where they’re from. Ask if there’s anything you could do for them. Let them know. I mean, some of these people come from churches where they were welcomed all day every day. And they come to the Catholic church and they’re like, “I have no idea what’s going on, and nobody knows me.” Let them know, man. They’re part of a family that’s ready to take care of them.
Adam Wright:
I mean, we’ve all seen and heard The Journey Home with Marcus Grodi, and it’s a fantastic show, so we know some of the questions to ask. How did your story begin? What led you to come into the Catholic faith? What do you love– You know the questions. You can do the interview yourself, right there in the vestibule of church one Sunday after Mass or out in the parking lot. And then follow that up with, “Hey, it’s great to meet you. It’s great to know you.” Speaking of great to meet, great to know, Matt. It’s always a joy to have you with us on Roadmap to Heaven. I’m looking forward, you know, pitchers and catchers have reported, soon the preseason games will begin, and then we will be into it. There’s a rumor they’re going to retool the league if they have an expansion team in baseball, but until then, your Reds and my Cardinals are still in the same division. We both wear red. And maybe next time they’re playing one another, we’ll have to get a little friendly morning show wager going here.
Matt Swaim:
Well, all I can say is that the communion that unites us is stronger than the division rivalry that might attempt to divide us. So I’m always glad to be connected with you through Catholic Radio even if we have to argue three games at a time a few times a year.
Adam Wright:
I love it. I love it. Matt Swaim, the host of the Sunrise Morning Show. You hear him every day on Covenant Network here at 6 AM. We’re going to take a break. Stay tuned for more.
In this episode of Roadmap to Heaven, host Adam Wright is joined by guest Matt Swaim and they discuss what to expect in the upcoming season of Lent. Matt Swaim is host of the Sunrise Morning Show and a member of the Coming Home Network.
During Lent, Matt highlights the importance of not overlooking events and activities connected to newcomers amidst the busy season. He mentions the scrutinies, liturgical practices where newcomers are questioned, and specific gospels are read, recounting stories of miracles that require scrutiny.
The rite of election is discussed as an initiation of the invitation for individuals to enter the church. Matt raises the question of the audience’s role in this process and emphasizes the importance of their involvement. He suggests inviting newcomers over for dinner, getting to know them, and asking how one can help them transition into the Catholic faith.
Matt emphasizes the importance of converts reckoning with their pasts and questioning their sincerity as they enter the church. He suggests incorporating the same level of enthusiasm and celebration seen at welcome-home parties into liturgical and prayerful gatherings to truly welcome and embrace new members.
Matt acknowledges that some converts come from churches where they were warmly welcomed, and the transition to a Catholic church may leave them feeling lost or unknown. He urges the Catholic community to make these individuals feel like part of a caring family that will support and nurture them.
Overall, this episode of Roadmap to Heaven provides a look into what happens in the Catholic church during the season of Lent. The conversation ends with a reminder to consider each person entering the church as a reflection of the community and to treat them as full members of the body of Christ.
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