Youtube Interviews
In this episode of Roadmap to Heaven, host Adam Wright welcomes guest Father Jeffrey Kirby to delve into the fascinating story and significance of Saint Lucy. The conversation begins by highlighting the bodily aspect of Catholic spirituality and the brutal martyrdom suffered by early saints like Lucy, whose eyes were plucked out.
Father Kirby sheds light on how the early church used the means of torture to glorify martyrs, with Lucy being depicted holding her eyes as a symbol of triumph and her willingness to die for her faith. Father Kirby recounts his personal experiences with the intercession of Saint Lucy and her impact on his faith, mentioning miraculous eye restorations supported by medical certifications.
Further delving into the topic, Father Kirby shares insights on the biblical figure Lucifer and his association with light. Lucifer, a cherubim and chairman of sacred music and light, rebelled against God due to jealousy when humanity surpassed him. The episode reflects on the irony of someone with a name meaning “light” fulfilling a role as a martyr and applies it to the mystery and humor of God.
Adam stresses the importance of following Saint Lucy’s example and willingly sacrificing oneself for a greater task, as opposed to falling into the self-centered mindset of focusing on self.
Throughout the conversation, the thread of martyrdom and its relevance in modern times is highlighted. It is noted that while contemporary martyrdom may not always be bloody, it involves suffering and being stripped of respectability, as witnessed in over 50 countries where publicly declaring the divinity of Jesus Christ is illegal.
Overall, this episode of Roadmap to Heaven provides deep insights into the life and significance of Saint Lucy, inspiring listeners with her example of sacrifice and steadfast faith, while also raising thought-provoking questions about the nature of martyrdom and the role it plays in the contemporary world.
Adam Wright:
We are always happy to talk with Father Jeffrey Kirby. Today is no exception. And Father, today it’s good to see your face as we get together here on the radio and on the internet.
Fr. Jeffrey Kirby:
Yeah, likewise, Adam. It’s good to see what we both look like. It’s so good.
Adam Wright:
Yeah. You know, speaking of seeing, that’s actually who we’re going to talk about today, is a patron saint who, perhaps you’ve seen her depicted with a wreath on her head, or eyes on a platter. Father, who are we talking about today?
Fr. Jeffrey Kirby:
Yeah. So today’s Saint Lucy, powerful intercessor.
Adam Wright:
So I guess the first question is: why is she carrying her eyes on a platter, Father?
Fr. Jeffrey Kirby:
Yeah. I have to say, our Catholic spirituality is very bodily, in many respects. So, Lucy is shown with her eyes on a plate because her eyes were plucked out as part of her martyrdom, as she was remaining faithful to the lordship of Jesus Christ. So we know many of our early martyrs, they’ve suffered horrible torture and almost in a way to kind of mock that, but also, to honor the fact that they were willing to die for the faith, the early church especially started using the means by which they were tortured as ways to glorify them. So, Lucy is there holding proudly her eyes, that all the Christ done for her, she was able to give Him her eyes. So, it’s both kind of tongue and cheek, in one sense. We see the sense of humor of God in the church, but also as a symbol of triumph, of these holy martyrs.
Adam Wright:
I have been counted worthy enough to give my eyes for the Lord, and so I will present them for the Lord, seems to be the sentiment. You know, Father, I have to say, I hope that I could have that grace that if our Lord said, “Listen, you’re going to have to endure this persecution, and they’re going to come for your tongue. You’re on radio. They’re coming for your tongue.” That I would have the grace to say then, “Let them take my tongue for you, oh Lord.”
Fr. Jeffrey Kirby:
Right. Right. And I’ll tell you, that’s why we need these early martyrs, because oftentimes — thanks be to God, in the west, we are relatively free in terms of our religious expression, and we could forget even today in over 50 countries, it is illegal to publicly declare the divinity of Jesus Christ. So there are Christians today who are suffering martyrdom and of course, there’s a different type of martyrdom in our world today where we’re stripped of respectability. We’re called terrible names. People do not receive job promotions. They’re ostracized in their neighborhood. So, the martyrdom may not be bloody, but it’s real. So we can look at these early martyrs and say, here are these holy ones who stood the test of time who withstood all the challenges in terms of apostatizing, abandoning the faith, and remained faithful. So we’re thinking, oh, do I say something to this neighbor? Do I mention something to this coach? We can remember and be reminded and strengthened by these early martyrs.
And if I can just brag on St. Lucy for a little bit. You know, in our discipleship, I’m sure we’ve all seen this in one way or another, but we realize that there are certain saints that kind of pick us? You know, they’re kind of always around. Well, I have to tell you, Adam. Lucy must have very early on picked me, because she has been a huge part of my discipleship, a huge part of my priesthood. And, honestly, I really didn’t know much about Saint Lucy. In fact, I’m still kind of learning about her, in terms of different accounts of her life and stuff. But I tell you, I have prayed to so many people to Saint Lucy. I can tell you that I have witnessed miracles, eyesight restored, medically certified miracles, through the intercession of Saint Lucy. Where people have come and they said, “I’m going to lose my sight” and so on. And I said, “Let’s pray to Saint Lucy. Let’s give you the anointing of the sick. Let’s ask for the intercession of Saint Lucy.” And, of course, the grace of the sacrament, the intercession of this holy one, these are real. Sometimes, we can almost in our secular age, dismiss the power of prayer or the power of authentic healing. And I can tell you this is one place where I can say I have seen it. Where medical doctors were confounded. And they always say this, “unexplainable by contemporary medical science”. You know what I mean? AKA God’s working. And Lucy, she just has a real heart for those who suffer, especially in terms of eyesight.
Adam Wright:
Now another beautiful aspect of Saint Lucy lies in her name. You say, what’s in a name? And I was musing on the show yesterday that Saint Nicholas Day is really the first we’ve put up decorations in the house this year. I like to use Advent as a season of preparation. So, starting with Saint Nicholas Day, little by little things will start appearing in the living room and the dining room. And this week, the other big task is to put the lights up outdoors, because I do actually want to have those up for Saint Lucy’s feast day next week. Father, you know why I’m mentioning that, but please share with our listeners why Saint Lucy and lights? Where are we going here?
Fr. Jeffrey Kirby:
Yeah. Yeah. So, Lucy in Italian is “Lucia” and means “light”. So, her name has always been associated with clarity, perspective, insight, but her name actually just means light. So, we can almost see — as you said, what’s in a name? That her name itself in many respects reflected the vocation that eventually she would be asked to fulfill as a martyr. So we can actually look to the saint who is a patron saint of eyesight, but also, again, I always just see this as God’s sense of humor. That her name would actually mean light. So, you can imagine a person who’s healed through her intercession is able to see, and to see light. So again, we just see the mystery and such a humor of God.
Adam Wright:
I’m hearing those voices: “Do you see the light? Do you see the light?” Hopefully. Hopefully, we do. Father, with that in mind, I’d like to turn our attention elsewhere, but related for a moment. We think of words in the church, and I love our vocabulary in the church. We think of the crucifer, who carries or brings the cross in the procession. We think of the thurifer, who carries the thurible, or the incense in the procession. And actually, the word “Lucifer” would be the light bearer, the light bringer. And yet, I bet there are people pausing right now saying, “Wait a minute. Hold on. Isn’t Lucifer one of the names for the devil? How could the light bringer be a fallen angel?” And I guess what I want to ask here, Father, does that mean that before the fall of the angels, this particular angel could have been tasked with that bringing of the light to the world, and said no and rebelled. And hence, why Lucifer could be a fallen angel?
Fr. Jeffrey Kirby:
Yes. Yeah. Very much. In fact, according to the prophets from the Old Testament, Lucifer was a cherubim. So there are 9 choirs of angels, and the cherubim are the second highest. The very highest are the seraphim, which means the burning ones, because they’re right there in the presence of God. They burn with the love of God. The next level, the cherubim. And by prophetic tradition, Lucifer was a cherubim. You can imagine, our guardian angels are on the ninth level. Saint John Henry Newman said, if we saw any angel, the lowest, lowest, lowest angel, if we were to see him, we would think that it was God. Because the majesty and the beauty and the splendor of even the lowest of the lowest angel is so far above us. And yet, we imagine this ninth level, these angels, our guardian angels, in this group, you go all the way up and Lucifer’s there as a cherubim. Which means he saw the presence of God. He ministered to the throne of God. He was there. Tradition also recounts that he was in charge of the sacred music. That he was also, of course, in charge of the light. He carried the light, and so on. Then we have other traditions from the early fathers, in terms of that he was assigned specifically to care for the Garden of Eden and for our first parents, which is why he was so filled with jealousy when he realized that humanity would surpass him, by nature, by grace, that these human beings that God had created would be superior to him, and so on. So a lot of tradition surrounds him, but to your point, Adam, this was an angel who very much saw the light, was in the glory of that light, and chose not only to rebel, but to lead others in rebellion.
Adam Wright:
A good reminder for us that we have a task before us and we should follow the example of Saint Lucy and be willing to sacrifice ourselves and not follow the example of the devil, to say, “Me, me, me. I, I, I.” It’s just a good reminder. Father, I can think of no better way to conclude our time together than invoking Saint Lucy’s intercession. And as you’re the priest, if I could turn it over to you for that.
Fr. Jeffrey Kirby:
Sounds good. Let us pray. Father, we ask your blessing upon us, may you bless your people to see the light? May we always surrender to your goodness, to your majesty. We ask for the intercession of Saint Lucy. For each of us, especially those who might be suffering from poor eyesight or difficulties or illness surrounding the eyes, through Christ our Lord, Amen. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Adam Wright:
Father Jeffrey Kirby, thank you so much for being with us on Roadmap to Heaven today, and happy feast of Saint Lucy to you and all the folks out at our Lady of Grace.
Fr. Jeffrey Kirby:
Thank you, Adam.
Adam Wright:
We are always happy to talk with Father Jeffrey Kirby. Today is no exception. And Father, today it’s good to see your face as we get together here on the radio and on the internet.
Fr. Jeffrey Kirby:
Yeah, likewise, Adam. It’s good to see what we both look like. It’s so good.
Adam Wright:
Yeah. You know, speaking of seeing, that’s actually who we’re going to talk about today, is a patron saint who, perhaps you’ve seen her depicted with a wreath on her head, or eyes on a platter. Father, who are we talking about today?
Fr. Jeffrey Kirby:
Yeah. So today’s Saint Lucy, powerful intercessor.
Adam Wright:
So I guess the first question is: why is she carrying her eyes on a platter, Father?
Fr. Jeffrey Kirby:
Yeah. I have to say, our Catholic spirituality is very bodily, in many respects. So, Lucy is shown with her eyes on a plate because her eyes were plucked out as part of her martyrdom, as she was remaining faithful to the lordship of Jesus Christ. So we know many of our early martyrs, they’ve suffered horrible torture and almost in a way to kind of mock that, but also, to honor the fact that they were willing to die for the faith, the early church especially started using the means by which they were tortured as ways to glorify them. So, Lucy is there holding proudly her eyes, that all the Christ done for her, she was able to give Him her eyes. So, it’s both kind of tongue and cheek, in one sense. We see the sense of humor of God in the church, but also as a symbol of triumph, of these holy martyrs.
Adam Wright:
I have been counted worthy enough to give my eyes for the Lord, and so I will present them for the Lord, seems to be the sentiment. You know, Father, I have to say, I hope that I could have that grace that if our Lord said, “Listen, you’re going to have to endure this persecution, and they’re going to come for your tongue. You’re on radio. They’re coming for your tongue.” That I would have the grace to say then, “Let them take my tongue for you, oh Lord.”
Fr. Jeffrey Kirby:
Right. Right. And I’ll tell you, that’s why we need these early martyrs, because oftentimes — thanks be to God, in the west, we are relatively free in terms of our religious expression, and we could forget even today in over 50 countries, it is illegal to publicly declare the divinity of Jesus Christ. So there are Christians today who are suffering martyrdom and of course, there’s a different type of martyrdom in our world today where we’re stripped of respectability. We’re called terrible names. People do not receive job promotions. They’re ostracized in their neighborhood. So, the martyrdom may not be bloody, but it’s real. So we can look at these early martyrs and say, here are these holy ones who stood the test of time who withstood all the challenges in terms of apostatizing, abandoning the faith, and remained faithful. So we’re thinking, oh, do I say something to this neighbor? Do I mention something to this coach? We can remember and be reminded and strengthened by these early martyrs.
And if I can just brag on St. Lucy for a little bit. You know, in our discipleship, I’m sure we’ve all seen this in one way or another, but we realize that there are certain saints that kind of pick us? You know, they’re kind of always around. Well, I have to tell you, Adam. Lucy must have very early on picked me, because she has been a huge part of my discipleship, a huge part of my priesthood. And, honestly, I really didn’t know much about Saint Lucy. In fact, I’m still kind of learning about her, in terms of different accounts of her life and stuff. But I tell you, I have prayed to so many people to Saint Lucy. I can tell you that I have witnessed miracles, eyesight restored, medically certified miracles, through the intercession of Saint Lucy. Where people have come and they said, “I’m going to lose my sight” and so on. And I said, “Let’s pray to Saint Lucy. Let’s give you the anointing of the sick. Let’s ask for the intercession of Saint Lucy.” And, of course, the grace of the sacrament, the intercession of this holy one, these are real. Sometimes, we can almost in our secular age, dismiss the power of prayer or the power of authentic healing. And I can tell you this is one place where I can say I have seen it. Where medical doctors were confounded. And they always say this, “unexplainable by contemporary medical science”. You know what I mean? AKA God’s working. And Lucy, she just has a real heart for those who suffer, especially in terms of eyesight.
Adam Wright:
Now another beautiful aspect of Saint Lucy lies in her name. You say, what’s in a name? And I was musing on the show yesterday that Saint Nicholas Day is really the first we’ve put up decorations in the house this year. I like to use Advent as a season of preparation. So, starting with Saint Nicholas Day, little by little things will start appearing in the living room and the dining room. And this week, the other big task is to put the lights up outdoors, because I do actually want to have those up for Saint Lucy’s feast day next week. Father, you know why I’m mentioning that, but please share with our listeners why Saint Lucy and lights? Where are we going here?
Fr. Jeffrey Kirby:
Yeah. Yeah. So, Lucy in Italian is “Lucia” and means “light”. So, her name has always been associated with clarity, perspective, insight, but her name actually just means light. So, we can almost see — as you said, what’s in a name? That her name itself in many respects reflected the vocation that eventually she would be asked to fulfill as a martyr. So we can actually look to the saint who is a patron saint of eyesight, but also, again, I always just see this as God’s sense of humor. That her name would actually mean light. So, you can imagine a person who’s healed through her intercession is able to see, and to see light. So again, we just see the mystery and such a humor of God.
Adam Wright:
I’m hearing those voices: “Do you see the light? Do you see the light?” Hopefully. Hopefully, we do. Father, with that in mind, I’d like to turn our attention elsewhere, but related for a moment. We think of words in the church, and I love our vocabulary in the church. We think of the crucifer, who carries or brings the cross in the procession. We think of the thurifer, who carries the thurible, or the incense in the procession. And actually, the word “Lucifer” would be the light bearer, the light bringer. And yet, I bet there are people pausing right now saying, “Wait a minute. Hold on. Isn’t Lucifer one of the names for the devil? How could the light bringer be a fallen angel?” And I guess what I want to ask here, Father, does that mean that before the fall of the angels, this particular angel could have been tasked with that bringing of the light to the world, and said no and rebelled. And hence, why Lucifer could be a fallen angel?
Fr. Jeffrey Kirby:
Yes. Yeah. Very much. In fact, according to the prophets from the Old Testament, Lucifer was a cherubim. So there are 9 choirs of angels, and the cherubim are the second highest. The very highest are the seraphim, which means the burning ones, because they’re right there in the presence of God. They burn with the love of God. The next level, the cherubim. And by prophetic tradition, Lucifer was a cherubim. You can imagine, our guardian angels are on the ninth level. Saint John Henry Newman said, if we saw any angel, the lowest, lowest, lowest angel, if we were to see him, we would think that it was God. Because the majesty and the beauty and the splendor of even the lowest of the lowest angel is so far above us. And yet, we imagine this ninth level, these angels, our guardian angels, in this group, you go all the way up and Lucifer’s there as a cherubim. Which means he saw the presence of God. He ministered to the throne of God. He was there. Tradition also recounts that he was in charge of the sacred music. That he was also, of course, in charge of the light. He carried the light, and so on. Then we have other traditions from the early fathers, in terms of that he was assigned specifically to care for the Garden of Eden and for our first parents, which is why he was so filled with jealousy when he realized that humanity would surpass him, by nature, by grace, that these human beings that God had created would be superior to him, and so on. So a lot of tradition surrounds him, but to your point, Adam, this was an angel who very much saw the light, was in the glory of that light, and chose not only to rebel, but to lead others in rebellion.
Adam Wright:
A good reminder for us that we have a task before us and we should follow the example of Saint Lucy and be willing to sacrifice ourselves and not follow the example of the devil, to say, “Me, me, me. I, I, I.” It’s just a good reminder. Father, I can think of no better way to conclude our time together than invoking Saint Lucy’s intercession. And as you’re the priest, if I could turn it over to you for that.
Fr. Jeffrey Kirby:
Sounds good. Let us pray. Father, we ask your blessing upon us, may you bless your people to see the light? May we always surrender to your goodness, to your majesty. We ask for the intercession of Saint Lucy. For each of us, especially those who might be suffering from poor eyesight or difficulties or illness surrounding the eyes, through Christ our Lord, Amen. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Adam Wright:
Father Jeffrey Kirby, thank you so much for being with us on Roadmap to Heaven today, and happy feast of Saint Lucy to you and all the folks out at our Lady of Grace.
Fr. Jeffrey Kirby:
Thank you, Adam.
In this episode of Roadmap to Heaven, host Adam Wright welcomes guest Father Jeffrey Kirby to delve into the fascinating story and significance of Saint Lucy. The conversation begins by highlighting the bodily aspect of Catholic spirituality and the brutal martyrdom suffered by early saints like Lucy, whose eyes were plucked out.
Father Kirby sheds light on how the early church used the means of torture to glorify martyrs, with Lucy being depicted holding her eyes as a symbol of triumph and her willingness to die for her faith. Father Kirby recounts his personal experiences with the intercession of Saint Lucy and her impact on his faith, mentioning miraculous eye restorations supported by medical certifications.
Further delving into the topic, Father Kirby shares insights on the biblical figure Lucifer and his association with light. Lucifer, a cherubim and chairman of sacred music and light, rebelled against God due to jealousy when humanity surpassed him. The episode reflects on the irony of someone with a name meaning “light” fulfilling a role as a martyr and applies it to the mystery and humor of God.
Adam stresses the importance of following Saint Lucy’s example and willingly sacrificing oneself for a greater task, as opposed to falling into the self-centered mindset of focusing on self.
Throughout the conversation, the thread of martyrdom and its relevance in modern times is highlighted. It is noted that while contemporary martyrdom may not always be bloody, it involves suffering and being stripped of respectability, as witnessed in over 50 countries where publicly declaring the divinity of Jesus Christ is illegal.
Overall, this episode of Roadmap to Heaven provides deep insights into the life and significance of Saint Lucy, inspiring listeners with her example of sacrifice and steadfast faith, while also raising thought-provoking questions about the nature of martyrdom and the role it plays in the contemporary world.
We often send out our newsletter with news and great offers. We will never disclose your data to third parties and you can unsubscribe from the newsletter at any time.
Unfortunately, we’re unable to offer free samples. As a retailer, we buy all magazines from their publishers at the regular trade price. However, you could contact the magazine’s publisher directly to ask if they can send you a free copy.
You can create a new account at the end of the order process or on the following page. You can view all of your orders and subscriptions in your customer account. You can also change your addresses and your password.
No, you don’t have to create an account. But there are a few advantages if you create an account.
You never have to enter your billing and shipping address again
Find all of your orders, subscriptions and addresses in your account
Download invoices of your orders
No, we don’t have a physical store location at the moment. We accept only orders through our online shop and we’re shipping all orders with the Swiss Post Service. Please visit our shipping section for more details.
From time to time you will find us at design fairs and popup markets in Switzerland. Subscribe to our newsletter and you’ll receive the latest news.
An initiative of Covenant Network
