Adam Wright:
It was just a year ago that we had Father Wade Menezes grace us here in our studios as we were preparing for his talks at the St. Louis Marian Conference. And Father’s not going to be with us this year, although his confrere Father Bill Casey is going to be with us. And we look forward to that. And, Father, I understand you’re going to be at a Marian Conference of your own this weekend as well.
Fr. Wade Menezes:
I am. Thank you so much, Adam, for mentioning that. I’m going to be at our Lady of Champion Shrine in Champion Wisconsin, which is the only fully, fully approved Marian apparition site in the United States, approved a few years ago following a commission that he set up to examine the 1859 apparitions, which were 3 in number. To a woman named Adele Bryce, and fully approved by Bishop David Ricken of Green Bay, Wisconsin. And now she has her own national feast day, October 9th each year, but the shrine is going to maintain their annual May, (which is the month of Mary, of course) October being the month of October, they’re going to maintain their annual May Marian conference. So that’s what I’m going to be speaking at this coming weekend, along with one of my confreres from the Father’s of Mercy, Father Joseph Aytona, who’s actually the rector there at the shrine.
Adam Wright:
Oh, that’s wonderful to hear. Now, you may think that Father Wade and I are going to discuss the Blessed Mother today, and that would be a wonderful topic. It’s always wonderful to discuss our Blessed Mother and our devotion to her. But today, we are going to talk about something that is very timely to our liturgical calendar and that is the ascension of our Lord. Now, Father Wade, as we talk about the ascension, I have to tell you, every year I get a little bit thrown off because of Ascension Thursday, but we observe it in several places in the United States on the following Sunday. So today as we air this on Thursday, this is the day we celebrate the ascension, but liturgically, for many of us, it’s transferred to the following Sunday. But today is the day.
Fr. Wade Menezes:
That is correct. The fortieth day after Easter, and I’ll talk a little bit about that. As we talk about this wonderful, wonderful feast day of our Lord Jesus Christ, which I just love so much, precisely because it shows what awaits our own human body and soul composite, which He took on himself and the sacred incarnation. It shows us that we too can literally, not metaphorically, enter into Heaven for all eternity. And that’s the main point of the ascension. Listen to this, Adam. The feast of the ascension of our Lord commemorates the bodily ascent of Jesus into Heaven, 40 days after his glorious resurrection from the dead. Having completed His earthly mission, Jesus returned to Heaven to His heavenly Father with His eternal human body and soul composite. In this way, He opens up the gates of Heaven, literally to all of us humans with a human body and soul and shows us, each one of us then, precisely what awaits our own glorious human bodies and souls.
The feast of the ascension is for all Christians, a symbol of great hope, because it reminds us that Christ sits at His father’s right hand and His human nature and in His human body, interceding on our behalf. And that’s a wonderful, wonderful truth, capital T, of our one holy Catholic and apostolic faith. As members of Christ’s risen body, of course the church, we await the day when we too will be able to enjoy eternal happiness by His side in Heaven in our own bodies and souls reunited with Christ’s second coming, following that great Parousia event, following His second coming to be able to enter into Heaven definitively, because of course, after our own particular judgment, prior to the second coming of Christ, for those who die prior to the second coming of Christ, it’s only our souls that can enter Heaven if we go to Heaven. But the body will be reunited with the soul following Christ’s second coming.
And following New Testament accounts, of course, we celebrate the Ascension Day on the fortieth day of the Easter season, which is always, always a Thursday, as you just intimated, because Easter itself is always, always on a Sunday. Right? While some ecclesiastical provinces in the United States, which are made up of different dioceses, have moved the observance to the following Sunday, a few have kept it on the Thursday, which I think is a great thing. Luke chapter 24 verses 50 and 51 tells us, “Then he led them out as far as Bethany raised his hands and blessed them. And as he blessed them, he parted from them and was taken up to Heaven.” Okay, that’s the great ascension event of our Lord. And after His resurrection into Heaven on Easter Sunday, we know that Jesus spent 40 days appearing to His disciples, not only the apostles, but other followers as well, called His disciples. And during this time, His glorified resurrected body was veiled under the ordinary appearance of humanity. But after His final words to his disciples in Acts 1 verses 7 and 8, for example, the New Testament reports as they were looking on, He was lifted up and the cloud took Him out of their site.
Now it’s interesting, Adam, that during this 40 days of what we call His post-resurrection appearances, He did different things with His body in His glorified risen state, not yet ascended, which tells us what our own glorified transfigured body will do in its own glorified transfigured state. For example, I’ll give you a little tidbit here, but then I want to talk about these more at length. For example, He passed through locked doors when He appeared to the doubting Thomas, Saint Thomas the apostle. Doesn’t that sound like great fun? Passing through solid objects? Okay. So there’s 4 of these, called dotes in the Latin. The word means gifts. There are 4 gifts of the risen glorified body, which we’ll get to in a few moments. But this is the great feast of the ascension, of the fact that we too will one day enter Heaven, body and soul composite like our Lord, in His own body-soul composite, in His sacred humanity, which His divinity took on, in His sacred incarnation. He’s entering into Heaven for all eternity in His body-soul composite, which shows us literally, not metaphorically, that our own body-soul composites, our own humanity, can enter into Heaven for all eternity. And this is a great truth of our one holy Catholic and apostolic faith.
Adam Wright:
So you’re taking me to that prayer that you pray. We don’t pray as members of the Lady, but when you, Father, offer Mass, during the preparation of the gifts by the mingling of this water and wine, may we come to share in the divinity of Christ who humbled Himself to share in our humanity. And it sounds like this is the real lived experience we get to look forward to. It’s not just a nice set of words that you pray at the Mass, it’s a foreshadowing of what is to come, God willing, when we become saints.
Fr. Wade Menezes:
Well, right. That’s exactly why some of the church fathers called the ascension, 40 days after our Lord’s resurrection, the pivotal event in Christ’s life, the pivotal event. Because it shows forth that we, while sharing through the sacramental economy in God’s sanctifying grace, which makes us actual participators in His own divine life, we can one day enter Heaven for all eternity for those who remain faithful. And as our Lord’s sacred humanity is seated at the right hand of His father in Heaven, our own sacred humanity– Human nature is sacred. We’re made in God’s image and likeness. Our own sacred humanity, lowercase s if you want, where our Lord’s sacred humanity is a capital S. Our own sacred humanity is called to enter Heaven as well.
Notice too, I want to say this, where the word ascension is an active verb, whereas the word assumption is a passive verb to describe our Blessed Mother’s entering into Heaven, body and soul, following the expiration of her earthly life. Meaning she was assumed by God into Heaven, where our Lord’s ascension is an active verb. He did it Himself as God, united with the Father and the Holy Spirit. So it’s important to make that distinction of the ascension versus the assumption. Mary couldn’t have done it on her own. The assumption is a passive verb. She was assumed by the trinitarian Godhead into Heaven upon the expiration of her earthly life. But our Lord, in His second divine personage, ascended actively on His own, united as one with the Father and the Holy Spirit because wherever there is one divine person, the other two are present as well. So that distinction of the passive versus the active verb needs to be made as well.
Adam Wright:
Now you didn’t tell me we were going to be diagramming sentences here today, but I always enjoyed that part of English class back in 7th and 8th grade. Father, you brought up these things that we have to look forward to with our resurrected bodies. I’m really excited about this part of the conversation because just the other night doing a little family catechesis of the impromptu variety, one of my daughters asked, “Does God use magic?” And I said, “No, God uses miracles. He works with the miraculous. It’s not magic,” and trying to get that little brain to comprehend what exactly are we talking about here? So when you talk about walking through a locked door, I’m thinking of all those specials I used to watch on TV as a kid of “Now, we’re going to make this statue disappear before your very eyes,” using various sight tricks and gimmicks and and whatnot, but that’s not what we’re talking about here. We’re talking about the miraculous. So, what is it we have to look forward to?
Fr. Wade Menezes:
Well, there there’s 4 distinctive properties or qualities or gifts, referred to as dotes in the Latin, which regard the glorified risen state of the body soul composite reunited, but in its glorified risen state, that our Lord demonstrated during His 40 days after His resurrection before He ascended into Heaven. And it’s what are called the post-resurrection accounts. It’s things that He did with His body soul composite in its glorified risen state during these 40 days of the post-resurrection accounts of His appearances to His apostles and disciples that show us precisely what awaits our own glorified risen state when our body and soul composite is reunited after the great Parousia of the second coming of Christ. And I’ll just comb through these quickly, but I want to make it clear that my book, The Four Last Things: A Catechetical Guide to Death, Judgment, Heaven, and Hell, I spend time talking about each of these 4 in-depth. And so if any of our listeners today, Adam, want to go into a deeper study of these, simply get the book, The Four Last Things: A Catechetical Guide to Death, Judgment, Heaven, and Hell that came out in 2017 and is published by EWTN Publishing.
But our Lord demonstrates, and Saint Paul identifies, 4 distinctive qualities of the risen glorified bodies of the just, the saved. And so since the 1st century, Holy Mother Church, the bride of Christ, has developed this revealed doctrine, about the qualities of the risen bodies of the just, that is the saved. These 4 qualities have been given technical names: impassibility, subtility, agility, and clarity. Okay? And so now I want to dive just a little bit into each one. And direct people to the book if they want to know more about them. But impassibility, the Latin phrase is impassibilitatis, regards the incapability of suffering. The absolute incapability of suffering for the risen glorified body of the just, of the saved, in heaven. That is the body’s inaccessibility to physical evils of any and all kinds such as sorrow, sickness, injury, or death. So remember, not only psychological suffering, but also physical suffering, the inaccessibility of suffering of any kind to the risen glorified state. Again, whether sorrow, sickness, injury, or death. It may be more closely defined as the impossibility to suffer or to die. The Latin phrase for this, the impossibility to suffer or to die, is non posse pati mori. Alright? And the church has defined this since the end of the 1st century.
Subtility, the second point of the 4 gifts, regards man’s spiritualized nature at the resurrection. The archetype of the spiritualized body is the risen body of Christ, which emerged from the sealed tomb and penetrated closed and/or locked doors, like in the upper room when our Lord appeared to the doubting Thomas. Thus, subtility grants the resurrected body, for example, the ability to pass through solid objects. Again, this was seen when Christ passed through the solid and locked doors of the upper room when He first appeared to His apostles. So you’ve got to share these gifts with your kids, Adam. Your kids are going to love these, especially your boys. Your boys are going to love these gifts. Okay? Because we just love stuff like this.
Adam Wright:
I’m thinking of all the times my kids stub their toes. This is why you need to strive for sainthood, kids, because with the resurrected body, there’s no pain if you stub your toe. In fact, you may just be able to pass through whatever object you stubbed your toe on.
Fr. Wade Menezes:
That’s exactly right. That’s exactly right. Number 3 is clarity, referred to in the Latin as claritas. Clarity, or claritas, regards the glorified body being free from everything deformed and being filled with complete and resplendent beauty and radiance. Alright? Each person’s clarity will vary according to the degree of glory in the soul at the time of death. And this in turn will depend on a person’s merit before God, and one’s charity practiced while still having been living on Earth. This is why charity is so important. Faith hope and love, and the greatest of these is love because love continues to abide in Heaven, where hope and faith do not because the object of faith (God) and the object of hope (God) will have been attained in Heaven. So there’s no reason to have faith or hope in Heaven because God is their subject. God is their end, and we will have attained God in Heaven. But does love remain in Heaven? Oh, yeah. Because God is love (1 John 4) and God is in Heaven. Okay? So again, clarity regards the glorified body being free from everything deformed and being filled with complete and resplendent beauty and radiance. Each person’s clarity will vary according to the degree of glory in the soul in Heaven, and this in turn will depend on a person’s merit before God at the time of death, and that is based primarily on one’s charity practice while still having been living on Earth. This is very, very important. Okay? Very important.
Clarity, then, regards the glorified splendor, the resurrected body, and its complete lack of imperfections and deformities. Now I want to make a distinction between an imperfection and a deformity, Adam. An imperfection is something obtained after birth. Okay? Extra utero, outside of the womb. Okay? Where deformity is something considered to have been born with, from the womb. Okay? So whether imperfection, after birth, or deformity, from birth, either or, they will be completely lacking through this dotes, this gift of clarity. So, for example, let’s say somebody is born with a club foot, but they’re saved following their life. No more clubfoot. That would be considered technically, philosophically speaking, a deformity. How about an imperfection? Let’s say you’re in a car accident. Praise God, you didn’t die in the car accident, but it left you a scar. Let’s say from your lower left earlobe, down to your mid-neck. Okay? And you had that, let’s say, when you were 14 in that car accident. You die at age 89. You enter Heaven. No more imperfection of that scar from the lower left earlobe down to your middle neck. So I just want to make that philosophical distinction between a deformity from birth or an imperfection after birth.
Listen to this again. Whatever imperfection or deformities the body had on Earth will be taken away and will not be present in Heaven. Extremely important note, however. Extremely important note. Listen to this. We must note, however, that Christ’s wounds do abide in Heaven, and they too are glorified in that they remain a sign of His triumph. Thus Christ’s wounds on His resurrected and transfigured body are not considered signs of imperfection, because He would have obtained them after birth, right? When He died on the cross on Good Friday. So we already know they’re not deformities. If anything, they’re imperfections because they were acquired by Him from the cross after that. They are not considered imperfections because they are signs of His triumph. Listen to this. This is very, very telling. It must be remembered that Jesus’s wounds are the very tools which brought the apostle Thomas to believe in Christ’s own resurrection (John chapter 20).
According to Saint Thomas Aquinas, the Lord kept in His glorified and transfigured body the marks of His wounds from His death for 4 primary reasons. Number 1: to serve as an everlasting testimony of His victory over sin and death. Number 2: to serve as a proof that He is the same Christ who suffered and was crucified, and who now is glorified and risen, or risen and glorified. Number 3: to serve as a constant and concrete plea on behalf of the eternal Father for all of the saved of mankind, or humankind. And number 4: are you ready for this? Christ retains His wounds from the cross and His glorified risen state, Adam, to serve as a means of upbraiding the reprobates (the damned) on the last day (the second coming), showing them what He did for them. Thus reminding them of what they still wickedly despised and rejected. His wounds, His dying from the cross. Okay. So those are the 4 reasons why Christ retains His wounds.
This is a very deep, profound doctrine, this doctrine of the ascension, and it cannot be forgotten. He keeps His wounds and His glorified risen state. His wounds, which would not be deformities, but imperfections, to serve as an everlasting testimony of His victory over sin and death, to serve as a proof that He is the same Christ who suffered and was crucified and died. Number 3, to serve as a constant and concrete plea on behalf of all of the saved of humankind before the eternal Father in Heaven, and to serve as a means of upbraiding the reprobates (the damned) on the last day showing them what He did for them, thus reminding them of what they have wickedly despised and rejected nonetheless. And this is very, very telling. Did I go over agility? Did I give you 3 or did I give you 4?
Adam Wright:
I think you gave us 4, but let’s go with agility just in case, because as I get into my older —
Fr. Wade Menezes:
Oh, no, I didn’t cover agility.
Adam Wright:
Well, let’s do that because as I’m getting into my middle-aged less agile body, it gives me something to look forward to, with the hope of the resurrection.
Fr. Wade Menezes:
Let’s recap these first 3: impassibility, subtility, and clarity. Okay. And then the fact that Christ’s wounds remain, which isn’t really one of the 4, but it builds off of clarity because clarity means no deformities or no imperfections. Okay? I forgot agility. This is one of my favorites, especially if we play basketball here at the Fathers of Mercy, even like 2 on 2 basketball. Listen to this. I love this. Agility in the Latin is agilitas. Agility is the capability of the body to obey the soul with the greatest ease and speed of movement, that depends only on an act of the will. It forms a contrast to the heaviness of the earthly body, which is conditioned by the law of gravity. And we know about the condition of the law of gravity, Adam, as we get older. Okay? Both men and women, I think. The characteristic of agility was manifested by the risen body of Christ, which was suddenly present in the midst of His apostles and which disappeared just as quickly. For example, He disappeared from the upper room after He appeared to the doubting Thomas, but also on the road to Emmaus. Once the 2 disciples on the road to Emmaus invite Him in to have supper with them, after they break the bread, they recognize Him in the breaking of the bread. And the very next line is, scripture tells us, He vanished from their side. And so the intrinsic reason of agility lies in the perfect dominion of the transfigured soul over the body, to the extent that it moves the body through space with the speed only of thought, by an act of the will. So can you imagine: basketball game. Right? “I want to be by that hoop right now.” And bam. You’re right by the hoop. Okay. Even though you were across the court, how awesome would that be? Right? So the question is: is there basketball in Heaven? That’s the question.
Adam Wright:
Well, that’s what I was going to ask you about because we’re talking about these 4 great things, you know, and I’m looking forward to no pain when stubbing my toe or bumping my elbow into the door frame, because I could just pass through the door frame, and I’d have that will of the mind over my body and not competing with the laws of gravity. And all of the deformity and imperfection gone. But Father, when we look forward to the hope of the resurrection, and let’s assume for a moment that we do die in a state of grace, and whether we spend that time in purgatory or go straight to Heaven that we get to experience that beatific bliss, that presence of our Lord. Will there be basketball to play? Will there be locked doors to pass through? Will there be shoes lying across the living room floor to stub my toe on?
Fr. Wade Menezes:
Well, here’s the answer to that question. Anything that brings you happiness right now in this life, like a good basketball game, like the ability, if you could imagine or pretend now, that you could pass through solid objects, even now before the second coming of Christ. That sounds like pretty much fun to me, that would bring me happiness. I could do it. I could do the agility now with the speed of thought and movement, right now while playing basketball. It would bring me happiness now. Anything that can bring you happiness now, while still living on earth, prior to your death can only bring you a greater happiness in Heaven. Eye has not seen, and ear has not heard, nor has it even dawned on the human mind, what God has prepared for those who love Him. The New Testament’s definition of Heaven. And that’s what we remember. If it brings you happiness now, that happiness will be surpassed in Heaven, even if the thing itself ends up not being in Heaven, the happiness that it brought you while on Earth will be surpassed in Heaven. So you wouldn’t even miss it. That’s the answer to that time-honored question that’s been asked since time immemorial, and we look to the New Testament for that answer.
Adam Wright:
I guarantee you my children are listening to this right now saying, “We’re going to have the best game of hide and seek ever in Heaven someday. Where we can hide, and when I hear you walking through the wall, I’ll just will to be gone and into a different room, and it’ll happen like that.”
Fr. Wade Menezes:
Amen, amen. Two great popes and quotes on the ascension. Pope Benedict XVI says this is why, he says, the ascension is so important to us as human persons. “The temporary absence of Christ from the Lord, from His ascension until He comes again at His second coming, is not to be looked at solely in that regard. Rather, we can go to Heaven to the extent that we go to Jesus Christ and enter into Him now, awaiting these glories that He foreshadows for us.” So even contemplating the ascension now, in the here and now, while still living on Earth, should bring us a great, great joy of the hope and joy that is to come.
And then Pope Francis says, “The ascension of Jesus into Heaven acquaints us with this deeply consoling reality of our earthly journey. In Christ, true God and true man, our humanity was taken up to God. Christ opened up the path to Heaven for us. If we entrust our life to Him in the here and now, if we let ourselves be guided by Him here and now, we are certain to be in safe hands, in the hands of our savior who went on that path to Heaven, confident that He will place us on that same path as well.” I love those two quotes from Pope Benedict XVI and Pope Francis, Adam, because they both regard living still in the here and now, and how the thought of our Lord’s ascension gives us the great, great virtue of hope. It’s kind of like realizing that the Kairos of God (the time of God) and the Chronos (the chronological time of man) merge even here and now while still living. And that’s a truth of our faith that brings us great, great hope.
Adam Wright:
Here’s something I love about all of this, Father. We started out with this idea that for many of us, even though today is Ascension Thursday, we will observe the ascension, liturgically, on Sunday. But after our entire discussion here in length, we should just observe the ascension every day. Every day that we have hope, every day that we have faith that we could be numbered among the saints. That’s a reason to celebrate the ascension.
Fr. Wade Menezes:
You’re exactly right. Again, the sacred liturgy is, above all things, the worship of the divine majesty. Whether it’s Ascension Thursday, Ascension Sunday, a Sunday in ordinary time, a weekday Mass on a Wednesday after work. The here and now is so important and the here and now shows that the Kairos of God and the Chronos of man do collide, especially during the sacred liturgy, the celebration of the Eucharist, the source and summit of the entire Christian life. And that cannot be forgotten of. And the sainthood that we pray for every morning during our morning offering, that we hope to partake of as a citizen of Heaven following the second coming of Christ with our body and soul composite, our body and soul reunited. But even with just the soul in Heaven, prior to the second coming, also a citizen of Heaven, we’ve got to realize that we’re meant to contemplate these heavenly realities even now. There’s a great quote also from Pope Saint Leo the Great. He says, “With all due solemnity, on this day of the ascension, we are commemorating that very day in which our own poor human nature was carried up into Heaven for all eternity. In Christ, above all the hosts of Heaven, above all the ranks of angels He is, beyond the highest heavenly powers, to the very throne of God the Father, He now sits. He calls us to this same place. It is upon this ordered structure of divine action by Him that we have been firmly established in our own sacred humanity.” That leaves us beyond a shadow of a doubt where we’re meant to go, where we are meant to go one day and spend eternity. And that is Heaven. The place where eye has not seen and ear has not heard, nor has it even dawned on the human mind what God has prepared for those who love Him.
Adam Wright:
You know I love bluegrass, Father. It adds a whole new dimension to that song: “This train is bound for glory” and I want to get my ticket to ride that train. So we better go live a life of holiness today. Well, Father Wade, I want to thank you for being with us to break open the ascension. This has been fascinating, and it gives me a lot to be joyful about today. A lot to look forward to, as we strive to live a life of holiness. And as always, if I could ask you to end our time together with a prayer and a blessing for our listeners, we would be grateful.
Fr. Wade Menezes:
Certainly, Adam, may the blessing of Almighty God, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit descend upon all of our Roadmap to Heaven listeners this day and always, and remain with each and every one of you this day and always. And as I end Open Line Tuesday, I end this show: Saint Joseph Terror of Demons.
Adam Wright:
Pray for us. I’ve got my pen here too, Father, that you’ve sent me, and I love it. We use it daily, we pray that prayer. Saint Joseph terror demons pray for us. Well, friends–
Fr. Wade Menezes:
He’s a good one to have on your side. Saint Joseph’s a good one to have on your side.
Adam Wright:
Anybody that can make the demons afraid just by the very act of sleeping. That’s someone whose team I want to be on. Father Wade, I thank you for being with us today. And for more on the Fathers of Mercy, you can visit
fathersofmercy.com. And Father Wade’s going to be back with us next week to talk about Pentecost. So we look forward to that as well.
Fr. Wade Menezes:
Yeah, the Pentecost follows the ascension. That’s a great, great thing. Most diocese, as you said earlier, Adam, celebrate the ascension on Sunday. And then the following Sunday is always Pentecost, and the coming of the Holy Spirit upon the life of the church. We’ll kind of crack open the 7 gifts and the 12 fruits of the Holy Spirit. These 19 great things that feed us daily in our walk in life.
Adam Wright:
Alright. Well, until then, friends, we hope you’ve enjoyed this time we’ve spent with Father Wade, whether it’s on the podcast or here on YouTube watching the video. We encourage you to check out all of our other content from Covenant Network wherever you get great content, whether that’s right on the radio, or on a podcast, or on YouTube, we’re there. Just look for @OurCatholicRadio. Until next time, I’m Adam Wright. Have a blessed day.
